Cooks vs. Servers (the responses...page 2)

...we have all chosen our positions...cooks and foh (front of house)...I get so pissed off listing to cooks bitch about how little money they make and how hard they work when servers and bartenders do nothing and make a ton...IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE FUCKING JOB DON'T DO IT!!!! It’s as simple as that...tired of cooking, be a waiter or a bartender just stop bitching about it...BTW I'm a bartender and I like what I do and yes, I make a ton of money but I work for it and I'm good at it so Mark in CA if you don't like what you're doing don't expect us foh people to have a pity party for you...you couldn't do it w/o us and if you could handle the people we have to deal with on a day to day basis you'd be out there with us...so go ahead and slam your pots and pans when we tell you we need something on the fly you're not the one who has to go placate the customer...we are...you don't get tipped less if the food sucks or takes a long time...we are...get over yourself and stop feeling sorry for yourself...

-DM 1/3/00

Dude, you've got no idea what you're talking about. #1, I am not a cook. I'm a Regional Manager with 400+ employees. I do not feel sorry for myself. I have a strong sense of reality that people come to restaurants for the food first, the service a close second, the cleanliness an extremely close third. In fact, switch that - cleanliness second, service third. Nothing like a filthy restroom to piss away your business. Any way, you obviously have a limited time in the industry. A restaurant is only as good as it's kitchen. You could have the nicest, most efficient servers and bar staff on earth, and be dreadfully slow or go out of business because your food is inconsistent or just plain bad. Secondly, the complaints I get mostly involve poor service – specifically "server attitude". The server who ignored the guest, acted impatient or like "they didn't want to be bothered". This has nothing to do with the kitchen. The kitchen is going to get backed up, no doubt about it. Sometimes it's understaffing, 86'd product, equipment issues. Sometimes it's poor performance by the cooks. But much of the time it's server error. You know, "Oh, this was supposed to be no cheese", or, "I'm sorry, they wanted this with beef, not chicken". Then the servers expect a miracle of physics, where the meat has to magically cook itself in 45 seconds...All this stuff creates extra work for the cooks. The only extra work a server does is pick tables they can't possibly handle. As far as placating the guest, you're damn right you're the one who has to do it. Who has developed a rapport with that guest? You. Who stands to gain by turning a bad situation into a positive one? You. The cooks never see the face of who you're waiting on. They see table 122 as a ticket
with orders on it. But, by and large, they want to serve great looking, accurate, timely plates - made the way they were ordered by the guest and inputted by YOU! Here's a test for you, D. Trade places with
the cooks for one shift. Just one. I would bet you a paycheck you would run screaming out of that kitchen, begging to put anywhere backs on the floor. The cooks would leap at the chance for the easy money the servers make.

'Nuff said. Sorry for the ramble.

-Mark in Ca 1/3/00

...first of all you've made a couple of fatal assumptions...I've been in this business for 12 years...I started in the kitchen and worked my way up to asst. gen. manager (my restaurant did 9.5 mill a year) before I went back to bartending which I have stuck to till this day....I have run the whole gamete...done it all and I stand by what I say...you comment "cooks rule, servers drool" shows your poor attitude toward servers and it makes me believe that you are less than loved by your foh staff....and as far as cooks leaping at the chance to make the money we do, I'm sure they would, but they can't do the JOB...get over yourself pal and treat your foh staff with the respect they deserve!

-D.M. 1/4/00

I think all of you are newbie's. A restaurant will not long survive without great service and great food. A talented server can make up for poor food a few times, a talented cook can make up for poor service. again a few times. But one without the other on a consistent basis is a sure sign that the restaurant will not long be profitable.

This is a classic case of which comes first the chicken or the egg. 

-Sorehand 1/4/00

Re: "but they can't do the JOB...get over yourself pal and treat your foh staff with the respect they deserve!"

You asked for it. You have proven to me that you once again haven't a clue about what truly makes a good restaurant. I give respect to those that earn it - the cooks earn it every day. The FOH -specifically servers - earn it when they feel like it. You seem to have a giant bias towards FOH; makes sense because that's where you work. But your bias is blinding you towards the very heart of the matter - you can't sell a thing unless there's someone there to produce your product. Next, get over your importance. Bartenders are a dime a dozen. It takes more talent to create plates than to pour a beer, mix a drink or use a soda gun. Believe me, your regulars are not as loyal to you as you think. My FOH employees work for me because I treat them as adults, I give them a fair shot to prove themselves, I praise them when deserved and let them know when they've blown it. AND I STRESS TO THEM OVER AND OVER TO NOT TAKE THE COOKS FOR GRANTED - like you do. I bet you don't sell a plate of food a week. I bet if anyone asked you to run a tray a food to a table, you'd run off and cut limes. When was the last time you stocked your own beer? Got your own ice? How often do you tip your barback to break down your well? Nightly?

Respect, you say?

Do you even say hello to the cooks? Or do you walk on by, head straight to the time clock and essentially ignore their existence? Like I said, you wouldn't trade places with the cooks because they WORK for their living - you sweat when the cocktailers want their drinks and you're "busy" watching TV or are down at the other end, buttering up a couple of honeys with free drinks. I got your number, pal. I've seen 'em all. You wouldn't last 10 minutes in any of my buildings. My apologies to the true professionals in this group. This clown deserved a flame.

-Mark in Ca 1/4/00

...I really cannot believe what a clueless idiot you are...let me do a
little cutting and pasting...

...begin mindless drivel...

Re: "Next, get over your importance. Bartenders are a dime a dozen. It takes more talent to create plates than to pour a beer, mix a drink or use a soda gun. Believe me, your regulars are not as loyal to you as you think. I bet you don't sell a plate of food a week. I bet if anyone asked you to run a tray a food to a table, you'd run off and cut limes. When was the last time you stocked your own beer? Got your own ice?
How often do you tip your barback to break down your well? Nightly?
Like I said, you wouldn't trade places with the cooks because they WORK for their living - you sweat when the cocktailers want their drinks and you're "busy" watching TV or are down at the other end, buttering up a couple of honeys with free drinks. I got your number, pal. I've seen 'em all. You wouldn't last 10 minutes in any of my buildings."

...end mindless drivel...but I'm sure there's more to come....

...can you actually read your own words and call yourself a good manager???? You’re right I wouldn't last ten minutes in any of your buildings because 5 min into an interview with you I'd realize what a biased jerk you are and excuse myself and go work for a decent manager that has a clue...I also noticed you failed to recognize the fact that I have worked EVERY position in the business...so I'm aware of how much and how hard people work...maybe your cooks love you pal but your foh staff is disloyal and screwing you over every opportunity they get...trust me...I would love to know what "chain" you work for so I could have a good laugh to myself...after you finish reading this why don't you go berate some more of your bartenders and servers while you go grease the cooks some more...someone with your attitude won't last much longer...

...I also apologize to the "other" professionals reading this group...I just
really can't stand this joker... D

-D.M. 1/5/00

Re: "can you actually read your own words and call yourself a good manager????  you're right I wouldn't last ten minutes in any of your buildings because 5 min into an interview with you I'd realize what a biased jerk you are"

Dude, you failed to answer a single question I posed. Biased, unbiased, whatever. The point is cooks are more valuable than servers. Try executing a shift down a cook or two. Now, compare that to executing down a server or two. You say you worked in every position in the business, even attained the position of AGM. I wonder how anyone who has such a vast array of experience can feel the way you feel about the BOH...you didn't learn much. Oh, well. 

Re: "your cooks love you pal but your foh staff is disloyal and screwing you over every opportunity they get...trust me"

None of my staff LOVES me. They all respect me for the reasons I posted previously. I don't want any of my staff to LOVE me. I want to be regarded as an honest, fair and consistent boss - and if I weren't, I would've been gone long ago. So - final answer - you think FOH deserves more respect, I think BOH deserves more respect. I'm cool with that and have just raised myself above this now mindless conversation.

Re: "someone with your attitude won't last much longer..."

-Mark in Ca 1/5/00

Again, Pal...I've seen "bartenders" like you come and go...mostly go. Shitty attitude, blames everyone else for low pay or bad conditions. And of course...if you know that the FOH staff is screwing everyone then you must be in it too. Is that why you've worked every position in your shop? No one can trust you?

You pretty much make a case for having a human resources director on staff to keep the non humans like you from totally alienating the paying customer.

Nope, not a cook, not a server...I'm the owner! And Pally, you'd only open your yap like that once in Las Vegas before a batch of your FOH friends would take you out in the desert for a day hike.

Good luck in your career as a busser...jack-off!

-F.W. 1/5/00

...where the hell did you come from pal...whom exactly did I blame for
anything? how did I alienate any other FOH staff? by defending them from "Mr. Cooks Rule Servers Drool" guy? lemme see four years at my last house and 3 1/2 at my current house...hmm sure does sound like I'm a shitty bartender w. a poor attitude doesn't it? Did I mention I was employee of the year last year? and alienate the paying customer? I have more regulars than you can count (well maybe that's not appropriate because I doubt you can count that high)...I know which side my bread is buttered on...this started as a simple poll to see who thought whom was more important in the business...FOH or BOH...my pal with the poor attitude not only answered the poll but had to insult servers and bartenders in the process...I simply jumped to their defense...now it's just turned into a stupid flame war instead of an intelligent conversation...so I stand behind my position...FOH people are far more valuable than any dime a dozen BOH person...I'm done...

-D.M 1/6/00

P.S. Couldn't help this...I forgot how well Vegas is known for their
cuisine and service...keep those steam tables runnin' pal...

Yes...that's why every name chef on the planet is standing in line to open a restaurant here...bone up on the trades, expert...more gourmet rooms here including the Bacchanal at Caesars than ...wait...that's right, you have a hard on for "cooks"...you're still a jack-off. Done... toasted more than likely...drinking the profits won't make your house the 9 mil...will it?

Sometimes all you just have to de-lurk in this business to find out the
mentality of the low end of the employee scale. BTW...harder to get good cooks than a good wait staff...and I 've got over 1500 bartender apps on my desk and the house doesn't even open 'til October.

You started the war, jack-off. I just finished you... apologize for yourself to the rest of the serving staff.

-F.W. 1/6/00

Re: "...we have all chosen our positions...cooks and foh (front of house)...I get so pissed off listing to cooks bitch about how little money they make and how hard they work when servers and bartenders do nothing and make a ton...IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE FUCKING JOB DON'T DO IT!!!! it's as simple as that...tired of cooking, be a waiter or a bartender just stop bitching about it...BTW I'm a bartender and I like what I do and yes, I make a ton of money but I work for it and I'm good at it so MDXBDX if you don't like what you're doing don't expect us foh people to have a pity party for you...you couldn't do it w/o us and if you could handle the people we have to deal with on a day to day basis you'd be out there with us...so go ahead and slam your pots and pans when we tell you we need something on the fly you're not the one who has to go placate the customer...we are...you don't get tipped less if the food sucks or takes a long time...we are...get over yourself and stop feeling sorry for yourself... (- D.M. 1/3/00)"

So.

D., here's the problem. First of all, giving credit where credit is due, you raise a couple of valid points here and in your subsequent posts about the demands of the front of the house. And, in fact, when this discussion started, I also took the position that I would take a great server over a great cook, but for different reasons than you site.

Unfortunately, the presentation of your position is SO poor and so disrespectful of the other parties to this conversation that your message is lost in your inability to communicate. By and large, the regulars in this group are owners, multi-unit managers and lifers in the industry. We know what we're doing. And what we are NOT doing is swearing at each other, belittling each other or behaving like hourlies.

So. You can continue to shoot your mouth off and continue to get flamed and continue to have your blood pressure go up every time you read the responses to your posts here, or you can grow up and enter into a discussion on the issues with the rest of us. 

-EricABpos 1/9/00

A BIG yes to that Eric

-George T 1/10/00

(after this post, things return to an almost civilized tone and even a few pearls of wisdom sprout.)  Continue reading posts?  Go back to Cook's Page?   Respond

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